Recently, Obscure Magazine, which I only write for reluctantly, asked me to seek a follow-up interview with Ruben Bix, whom I last conversed with in January. Ruben, as Obscure readers probably don’t know, is an author of several works of hard-to-categorize fiction. He also has a long history of publishing little-known stories in lesser-known publications in seldom-visited corners of the internet. I met with him, at his suggestion, on a little-used bench beneath a recently-abandoned office block not far from his crowded-with-nicknacks-but-cozy home in San Francisco. Since Obscure Magazine recently folded, and I was paid nothing for my efforts, I’ve agreed to allow Mr Bix to publish it here, gratis. The following conversation has been lightly edited for clarity and brevity.
What made you choose this dark, depressing location for our interview, Mr Bix?
As a writer I’m very aware of symbolism. I admire writers who create settings that are symbolic of essential qualities in their literary work.
What is the intended symbolism of this cold parking garage?
As our conversation evolves, I hope we’ll be able to figure that out together. I’ll begin by saying that we can see an enormous structure which once required great human ingenuity and effort to create. It’s a fully functional building that, for reasons that are not too difficult to intuit, has recently become empty and forlorn. Nobody comes here anymore.
I see.
It seems to me that this setting might be symbolic of the current state of our culture…
Is that how you truly feel about American culture? I’m not quite as pessim—
Or it may symbolize the rigid, ossified character of Western Civilization with its growing deficit of wonder and joy and creativity.
So you’re saying—
Please don’t put words in my mouth. I didn’t say anything yet. I said it might be symbolic of these things, or it might be symbolic of something else. I was hoping you might have an opinion.
I’m sorry but this just seems like a stupid, boring game to me, Mr Bix.
Exactly. It might be symbolic of our being forced to play this stupid, boring game. Not just you and me, but everyone trapped in the stupid, boring techno-corporate nightmare of current life.
This line of discourse hardly seems pleasant, or productive. Or even slightly relevant to the things Obscure readers really care about. Do you mind simply telling us something about what’s going on with your website?
Thank goodness you finally figured it out! The bleakness of our current surroundings symbolizes the current state of my website, aka, The Nature Preserve dot substack dot com!
Why couldn’t you just say that?
Then it wouldn’t have been symbolic.
Okay. That is very not interesting, Mr Bix. Please, if you can bring yourself to do it, share something with our Obscure readers about your progress on Real Voices, the novel you promised to release “in a couple of weeks,” two months ago.
I’m glad you asked me about that. I’m happy to report that Real Voices is coming along nicely!
Which means it will be coming out soon?
Soon, I’m afraid, is a relative term, an ambiguous term even! It may be released in a few days. It may only be released after my death.
Gracious! You haven’t contracted some obscure terminal disease I hope?
Not to my knowledge.
So your health is good…
Fit as fiddlesticks!
Fiddlesticks?
Yes. The current state of my health is suggestive of fiddlesticks.
What's the current state of the new novel then?
I’ve completed seven chapters out of a projected twenty-two, the final number which of course may change. The story’s making me laugh a lot as I write it. I’m enjoying it. That’s why I believe it’s going well.
So it’s a comedy?
It’s turning out to be sort of a rom-com, though I didn’t initially think of it like that.
How did you think of it originally?
I believe I told you the last time we met, this book is something I started ten or twelve years ago and then abandoned because I couldn’t imagine where the story could possibly go. The characters stuck in my mind though. I thought they were really good. When I finished The Nature Preserve, I went back and read what I’d written before, and a resolution to the plot suddenly popped into my mind. I got so excited, I foolishly announced I’d be able to release it in “a couple of weeks.”
Now you’ve had a couple of months!
I know. I’m always like this. It’s like I think I can hike the Pacific Coast Trail in a weekend or something. I’m an idiot.
What’s holding things up then?
It’s hard to find time to work on it for one thing. I have a life… with some recent complications. I have a job. I have clothes to put on and take off, teeth to brush, beach pebbles to polish, etcetera. You can imagine how hard this is for me, I’m sure. The writing part’s going great when I get the time, but of course certain anxieties pop up too.
Anxieties?
Like, what if, after I’ve published the early chapters, the story develops in a new direction that doesn’t fit the set up? What if people don’t get the humor? What if I’m overdoing the humor? (The near total lack of comments about humor in The Nature Preserve really flummoxed me.) Another anxiety: Do I need illustrations? If so, how elaborate should they be? How literal? Should I do something new, stylewise? All these sorts of things keep hanging me up.
Those kinds of worries simply go with the territory, don’t you think?
Yes. I think you’re right. Still, with The Nature Preserve the writing was largely done before I started posting. The pictures were being drawn as I released it and were hugely time-consuming. I worry about getting into a situation where I won’t be able to keep up.
Why don’t you just get one of those AI Illustration apps?
Illustration is hard. Writing is hard. Art is hard. It’s only through the struggle with these things that you can ever get good at them. It’s only after a struggle to perfect your work that you can begin to take pride in it. I think AI will end up diminishing every sort of artistic undertaking humans have long taken pride in. Whole artistic traditions are likely to be gobbled up by it. It’s already happening. I find it frightening to find there are legions of people who apparently think this is okay. I’m absolutely opposed to using AI software for creative purposes.
Your artistic principles are going to slow you down though.
Ha! I know. But honestly, why should I care so much? Of course, I think an artist makes things to impress people and hopefully get some measure of admiration from them, but I think when you do creative work, it’s also very much about pleasing yourself. It’s a weird thing. With what I consider my best work, I’ve had to come to terms with the fact that conventional rewards aren’t going to be there. I made a good income as an advertising “Creative” for a long time, but most of the commercial work I did is so forgettable! I threw out a whole box of my ad reprints that I found in the garage the other day. They made me cringe. I think capitalism and art are correctly at odds with each other. I appreciate Andy Warhol's take on it, but still….
So you’re a snob?
Or just selfish. My wife says my belly button’s crooked.
I think most of our Obscure readers have normal belly buttons and will find remarks about AI and commercialism fairly boring. Do you have anything less strident you’d like to say?
I’d like to tell people to please be patient. I stupidly vacillated about turning off subscription billing during the last couple of months. It was turned off and then turned on for a short time and a number of subscribers canceled. I don’t blame them. Payments are completely off now. I wish I could set up the site so it’s, “donate any amount you wish.” Unfortunately, whatever you do, you’re required to have a minimum fee of five bucks. The alternative is nothing. So I guess I’ll go with nothing. I think I’ll put up Chapter One of Real Voices quite soon, though I’m still noodling the picture that goes with it. I want to have illustrations for the first three chapters to kind of introduce the three main characters but, after that, I’ll be doing pictures on a case by case basis. I’ll only do them if I have time. To start, I plan to post one chapter per week and it may not be on the same day each week. I’m hoping more people will make comments on this novel than they did on The Nature Preserve. That would be my best reward. I want to encourage people to read on the website and/or the sustack app to get the best experience. What else…?
That’s quite a bit.
I also think I might participate in this book more than the other one, in the sense of highlighting certain things, things I’ve been thinking about in the real world that are germane to the story. I don’t know how this may affect the way people read it though. I want people to read, as they always ought to, with an open mind. Me saying too much may be a bad idea.
I’ll drink to that. Is this another science fiction?
Oh! Did you bring anything?
Bring?
You know. Something to drink.
It was just a figure of speech.
Bummer. I could use a little snort about now.
Sorry about that. I agree it would’ve been a good idea though. I wanted to ask: Is this one another sci-fi?
No. This book is set in a sort of hyperbolic San Francisco, circa 2012. I want to make that clear since the level of technology in this story is not what it is today. (There’s no Uber for example. There aren’t a zillion apps on everyone’s phone.) Many scenes take place in a fictional ad agency and people who’ve ever worked in a real one may find those parts particularly amusing.
Anything else?
I hope people will read it of course. I hope people will share it because I won’t have time to do much promotion for this one. Oh, and there’s a sort of magic realism component to this novel. Some people may like that.
Do you mind if we end this interview with that last remark? I’m cold.
Just think, Mr Boccaccio, if there were people here, if people were walking around and driving, it wouldn’t feel so very cold.
This is one of your attempts to be symbolic again, isn’t it?
I think that’s an analogy actually.
I’m really, genuinely cold. Which way is the exit?
Maybe it’s more of a metaphor… meaning, there is no exit here.
Fyodor Boccaccio? What happened to Terry Gross? I'm sorry to hear that many scenes will take place in an ad agency. Would it be difficult to change the location to somewhere more uplifting like a brothel or an abattoir? We don't need any more Don Drapers, Michael Steadmans or Elliot Westons (OBSCURE readers will know those last two). In any event, let's move past these little fishing expeditions and finish the book already... please?!
Dear Ruben, I am 1/3 way through WAR AND PEACE and Tolstoy is still introducing new characters.
Please advise.
Fun fact: The edition of W&P I bought (from, Eric @ Bird & Beckett) is a 1942 edition with a placeholder pamphlet containing all the character's names, (formal and pet names) and in which chapter they are introduced. It also contains an annotated map of Napoleon's progress toward Moscow with dates. AND another progress line marked with little red swastikas delineating Hitler's progress to Moscow. Unlike the Napoleon outcome, Hitler's outcome was not yet known when the book went to press. I'm trying to get a handle on this whole Putin thing. But this book is spectacular.